Blizzard & Bloom: Insights from the Ice and the Green Scene
Welcome to Blizzard and Bloom, the podcast where the green meets the white! Hosted by Jay Rotonnelli, a seasoned expert with over 36 years in the landscape and snow removal industries, this show dives deep into the business, operations, and stories behind both blooming landscapes and blizzard battles.
Whether you’re a property manager, business owner, snow fighter, or landscape professional, you’ll find valuable insights, industry trends, and real-world advice. Expect candid conversations with industry leaders, tips for growing your business, and even a few wild stories from the field.
It’s informative, it’s fun, and it’s designed to help you thrive—whether the ground is covered in grass or snow.
New episodes every other week. Subscribe now to stay ahead in the green and snow game!
Blizzard & Bloom: Insights from the Ice and the Green Scene
How Creative Thinking Can Revolutionize Snow Management
Join us for an engaging conversation with Martin Tirado, CEO of SIMA, as we explore the fascinating world of snow and ice management. This episode goes beyond the usual logistical challenges to reveal the creativity and community spirit that fuel the industry. Martin highlights how innovative thinking and teamwork are crucial for overcoming challenges, especially given the recent unprecedented weather patterns.
Discover the similarities between snow management and broader business practices, and learn how organizations can adopt a proactive rather than reactive approach to their services. From discussing the pivotal role snow management plays in ensuring community safety to exploring the evolution of industry standards and practices, this episode shines a light on an often-overlooked sector.
Join us as we delve into the importance of collaboration and knowledge sharing among professionals, emphasizing how community engagement leads to better practices and personal growth. Whether you're seeking insights into the snow and ice management industry or looking for broader lessons in professional development, this episode is sure to inspire innovative thinking. Be sure to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
Welcome to Blizzard and Bloom, the podcast where we navigate the storms and celebrate the triumphs in business and entrepreneurship. Join us as we dive into stories, insights and strategies from top professionals to help you thrive in today's evolving landscape. And now here is your host, Jay Rotinelli.
Speaker 2:Here is your host, Jay Rotinelli. Hey, good afternoon, evening, morning, wherever it might be where you're located. Welcome back to Blizzard and Bloom. Last episode we had Michael Skeets from Piscataqua Landscaping on with us and he brought some really great insight on relational selling and sales and how you build those long-term relationships versus just a transactional sale. So I hope you got to listen to that. If you haven't, please check it out Today. Honored and humbled at the same time to have a great guest with us, had a great opportunity a few weeks back to spend some time with this individual and we really had a great time just sharing some insights and industry knowledge, talking about family and so forth, and one of the things we did was a scavenger hunt and that was fantastic. We had a lot of fun with that. So, without further ado, I want to welcome Martin Tirano from Syma on the show. So, Martin, welcome. Thanks for taking the time out of your day today to join us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks, jay. Well, we did a ship of fruit was a lot of fun, but the scavenger hunt I actually we just did a replication of this real quick event from our the timeless staff. I'm like, oh, you know, just get creative and just come up with just bizarre things and see if someone can go find them. The idea is to, you know, open up your mind, to, like you know, I thought it was funny, like one of the things we had to find was a yellow rose. It was like, oh, there isn't that around kind of thing. So well, we found someone. We found a local person hand through one with markers and highlighters and we took a picture of it. And hey, you know, that's kind of it. It's like you have to be creative. So it was a good exercise in exploring what boundaries your mind kind of has and how to get more creative with things that you do. So that was cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a great exercise. You know I was fortunate to get to know you a little bit better. You know I was fortunate to get to know you a little bit better and, to your point, it allowed you to provide some clarity and kind of put everything else aside and really think about how your mind works. So we're always so driven by time and standards that sometimes we don't get an opportunity to think outside the box, right? Anyways, that was great. So talk to us a little bit about how you got involved in the snow and ice management and kind of what your path has been getting to. Ceo of Syma.
Speaker 3:My background is organizational or association management. Prior to Simon, I worked for a company that managed multiple different trade and professional societies and associations and it was just a lot. To you know it was a management company. It was like. So it was a lot to balance of different clients and but I had great experience. I mean I worked with, really over the experience there, half a dozen different associations from all different fields, from, uh, education to legal. Actually there's a plumbing and mechanical association that probably the most relevancy to to the, the snow and ice industry and then from there I you know I just saw the position that you know simon had had open and you know I'm only the second CEO, executive director of the association.
Speaker 3:Oh, I didn't realize that the first one, tammy. So she was hired by the founding member and it's been, you know, since, going on actually 18 years, but it's been a really interesting kind of journey. I have a couple of people that on the Simon team that I hired right away and are still with us and we recently had this whole staff meeting and one of them was I thought it was very powerful. It's kind of reflected on we've come a long way and sometimes we take some things for granted, but it kind of like it gives you a chance to like, oh yeah, remember when we used to do that. Yeah, we didn't do that anymore because we've gotten a lot better. And you know, there's a lot of parallels, both, I think, in personal and in your personal growth, your life growth and also in your career, your business growth, that you can can have in that kind of realm and say like, okay, you know, let's reflect back on kind of what we were and how much, when, where we are now, and kind of like, give yourself a little, for this way people can be our own worst critics sometimes. Sure, yeah, absolutely can kind of maybe take some time to reflect and appreciate some of the things that we've accomplished and that was kind of nice to hear. But this is salt of the earth type of people that you can have a kitchen table conversations with. You hear that in the political sphere but it's not.
Speaker 3:Let's take the arrogance and the pretentiousness away and look at what Snow and Ice is. It's an emergency service that has to be done. It provides safety and the transportation I mean. You saw this in some of the winter storms that happened this past winter in the South. You shut down transportation and panic ensues and people working in Snow and Ice know we're trying to eliminate the panic and make things safer so that businesses can operate, people can get to schools, I mean hospital, you know.
Speaker 3:Just think of the medical centers that require 24-7. I mean it's life and death situations there. You're kind of working and trying to grow and professionalize this industry and working with the stakeholders and people can understand. People can understand sometimes it can be taken for granted, but the people that are really customers really appreciate it. It's like let's try to professionalize this where it's not just oh, snowplowing was always just, I'm just going to do that part-time on the side where I got this truck. How do you really kind of make this really turn into a must-have service, because you know that, again, sometimes life and death situations or emergency situations need to to remove snow and ice and remove the dangerous conditions so that life and business can continue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, interesting that you shared that.
Speaker 2:That was a great example, I think, about.
Speaker 2:You know, some of those storms that hit the south and really was impactful for me was seeing how some of the folks dealt with it and even, furthermore, how some of the SEMA members reached out and actually were able to help provide support by going South and contributing to those efforts.
Speaker 2:Because, to your point, I think, sometimes it's taken for granted in the Northern climate areas and it's just something that we do, right, and when you think about life, safety and some of these other things that don't really come into play for some of these other folks in the South, right, they're used to the tornadoes and the hurricanes and the storms and to see some of them and witness some of them go through that was pretty awe-inspiring, quite frankly, and really again seeing some of the SIMA members step up and, matter of fact, I saw one that I think was on the news in Alabama or Florida on the nightly news A plow on the highway with a pickup truck because they didn't have the equipment. So that was interesting. Can you share, like, maybe, some key milestones or experiences that have kind of shaped your leadership, sure, throughout your career, and even more so maybe, in the world of CYMA.
Speaker 3:Well, I've learned a lot from CYMA members. I actually kind of go back to even you had a personal reflection on this and kind of like my mother and then even my grandmother you know my grandmother's just her spouse, my grandfather World War II veteran. You know they just lived a different, you know the greatest generation, or we want to call them, and you know as an adult she went back to school and got a teaching degree and then ultimately ascended to being a school principal and I kind of take a look again at some. And then my mom was also a public school teacher, was like commitment to public service and this were kind of in some rural areas of Wisconsin not far outside of Milwaukee area where I'm at now. But you know it was kind of like compassionate yet tough, and I kind of learned that kind of growing up.
Speaker 3:The other analogy I've recently kind of been using is I played tennis through high school and then in college. One thing I kind of recently I don't play anymore, but I kind of have a recent reflection on like comparing it to other sports and it's really it's the only sport that you actually don't have coaching constantly in the middle of matches when I watch a football game and what I see a lot of stopping looking over at your coaches on the sidelines getting instructions like even less than golf. At golf, you at least have your caddy. It's you, you're on an island. In tennis, it's like make it or break it under your own resolve. For me, that really taught independence. How do I independently control my thoughts, actions, what I want to do, and that's I kind of realized it's how much of a longer term impact that's had on me, but certainly a number of Simon members, and there's just kind of so many of them, and what it really comes from, I think, is just the entrepreneurial spirit. Hey, you know what? I think that there's a good business to be had in the snow and ice industry, and that's how, you know, in Simon as well too, we're trying to get the new generation to not say this isn't just a job that goes and pays you X amount of dollars per hour.
Speaker 3:This can be a career, and if you have some kind of a business sense and business mind and you kind of want to like working outdoors, you want to kind of, you know, be your own boss. Landscaping has the same thing as well, too. Kind of both those, both. You know full season is this can be a great, not just a job, it's a career, and it's a career that can support not only your family, but think about people that you then hire and start working for you. You start building out a team, think about the families that they have and that are impacted with their children and you can really to me that it really kind of grows and like now you're, now you're developing a community.
Speaker 3:You know particularly what Simon was kind of all about and I think associations in general is it's always this concept, I think, is better. Together. Anyone can go out and kind of advocate for themselves but we collectively say how can we learn from each other? How can we develop best practices? How can we become safer, more efficient? It's by talking and meeting other people that are in your field. That helps you get to that point.
Speaker 2:So that's our motto for this year is chasing better together. So it's interesting you say that and that's just internally. But you know we talk about Simon is kind of I get into the next thing, like if you could sum it up in one paragraph, like what's the overview of Simon's mission and kind of the impact on the snow and ice industry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I mean the written word that we have, you know, is empowering snow and ice management professionals for success. And then you know, when you start to break it down like what does that kind of mean to help professionals be successful? And for Simon, that really is education, resources and tools, which is some of the best practices, standards, our certification, training and I know you're familiar with the Certified Snow Professional and that snow manager and then also then support and that's kind of like where some of those resources that we can help your business become better, the people in that business become better. We've been doing more advocacy on some statewide and particular legislation regarding SALT applicators. So just generally, kind of being an advocate to bring awareness to this industry. That's kind of where our niche is. We've had a lot of success. Is that educational field? And, don't get me wrong, we also have our challenges. You know this.
Speaker 3:Sure, like any company, I always kind of term this industry is uh, you hear industries are a low barrier. Really, let's face it, it's really a no barrier lansdowne, other outdoor services. All you really need to do is get an account and if you have a truck and a plow or a snowblower. You, you have a bonafide business. So there's kind of the those kind of base. But then you talk about some of the highest performing companies that are doing fantastic work on high impact shipping and facilities. You know, think of the Amazon, the Target warehouses, the warehouse shipping, and then we talked before about our mentioned hospitals and clinics, but even things like, you know, grocery stores and other retail centers and their distribution networks. They kind of have to be open. We have an economy that just we're built on seven days a week that people don't want to have. Yeah, that's right, is that way now? And enabling that transportation to occur is just inherently important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think about even during COVID when we were identified as a necessary service Right, and you think about what we had to do working through times of COVID and how important it was. It was just as important to keep the facilities open or the roadways and safety for life safety so that medical professionals could get in there. They hadn't had enough time as it was on being prepared with the whole COVID thing. So one of the things that I've seen Simon do and really grateful for is start to break it down into smaller components. Meaning I've seen the support that CYMA has given to the likes of Minnesota, the New Hampshire Green Snow Pro certification, some of the work that's getting done over in New York, and I think about how CYMA supports the professionals in the industries and associations at large by working through some of that.
Speaker 2:I know Phil's been doing amazing work over in New York professionals in the industries and associations at large by working through some of that. I know Phil's been doing amazing work over in New York With that. He was really instrumental in working with us in New Hampshire for the Green Snow Pro certification and then subsequently Syma stepped in and supported that and sponsored that event which now is drawing folks from all over New England and some coming nationally. So those are some really great things that I know I see happening. As far as, like what some of the you know, the importance of the industry standards and the safety practices, like what's CYMA's involvement or how are they delivering that message as an organization to their membership?
Speaker 3:Our best management practices are downloadable on our website for really kind of anybody, members or non-members, because it's meant to improve the industry at large. And you mentioned Phil Sexton. I think he also does great work. Like you said, I'm impressed by his SWIM Enable Winter Management Program. He's only making some good inroads into, I would say, the property facility side, which I think is really important. He was one of the subject matter experts who helped lead and develop those, which was a great tool.
Speaker 3:But a couple of our standards are certified by ANSI, the National Standards Institute.
Speaker 3:But what that does, I think, is it helps in that liability protection.
Speaker 3:To me it's like if you can say you're complying with and practicing these best practices and standards ANSI has accredited them is when you do have a slip and fall claim or some kind of an accident, that you can kind of use that as a way to defend yourself and your company for your practices.
Speaker 3:And you kind of come to the realization you know what winter maintenance and winter weather happens at all odd times and it's impossible to get rid of every single chunk of ice and snow on a paved surface. But if you perform and documented through these best practices standards, that it helps you defend against these cases and just say, hey, you know what, the winter weather is just totally unpredictable. We did a good job, and it's just some of these things do happen. There definitely have been cases. Actually, you mentioned the New Hampshire Green Snow Pro. There was a case a year ago that actually went to the New Hampshire Supreme Court and the Green Snow Pro certification helped the company avoid liability from a case that had gone up to that level and they used their backing of the training and the verification that they had gotten through that program to defend themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Actually, I think that's a really good example. I think that was Andrew Pelkey with North Point Outdoors and I remember seeing him sitting on the panel during one of the Green Snow Pro symposiums and you know it was a lot of work for them, but I'll tell you they had, when they followed, the best practices and standards that FIMA had in place and they followed through as well with the state of New Hampshire and the Green Snow Pro. It really, at the end of the day, came down to. They're now looked at as being, you know, somebody that's really helping set the standards from a contractor level and they were super successful with it. The case got thrown out and good for them because they did everything they could. And to your point and I think we're probably going to find a lot of this from this last weekend storm in the Northeast where you know we have upwards of a half to three quarters of an inch of ice at times in locations and when the temps aren't ideal, nothing's going to stop that right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's going to adhere to some surfaces in some manner or another. Sure.
Speaker 2:So we talk about some of that and then that's not easy as well. So it kind of leads me into and it's funny I've listened to a lot of people talk about this but people want to know the current challenges facing the snow and ice industry. And then, second to that, which I think evolves into it, is how the businesses can adapt to the changing weather patterns that we're having. So when I think about that, I think about some of the challenges being, you know, the slip and falls and how we work through some of that, and then training the property managers or educating the property managers on processes, procedures and standards and how we work through that and how we become a really great partner with those folks. So I was curious what your thought and what you've heard for maybe some of the challenges and then again how some of the businesses are adapting to that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you kind of led into it there with the weather part of it. Put it this way, it's really just the craziness of the weather environment we live in now. Call it climate change, call it whatever you want, just call it volatility. Yeah, there was. You know. I'm in Milwaukee, wisconsin, which is consistently snowy. We get, you know, low 40s on average per year. In January this year there had been more snowfall in parts of Louisiana, alabama and Florida, you know, or Atlanta were there had been more snowfall in parts of, uh, louisiana, alabama and florida, you know, or atlanta than there had been here, you know, nashville significantly more snowfall than we had. And sure enough, last week, over four days, we got like 12, 13 inches, depending where you were. So all of a sudden you catch up quickly. But it's just how do you structure your a business that can january, we had almost no snowfall and instead of doing things where it's like, oh, how do I just continue to charge for something like a salt application or something like that it's really looking at your contract, your portfolio of contracts.
Speaker 3:And one thing I've seen growing and I think it needs even more so is just having these conversations with properties that there's a cost for readiness. You have to have an insurance policy and you have to keep utilizing that message. You don't buy an insurance policy after there's an accident. You pay the premiums and they build up over time. Yeah, that way, when you do need to access these services, then they're for you and you know what. Maybe you do have a winner, but you hardly ever use it at all. But you need to have some kind of a skin in the game with your service provider that says you know, I want you here and ready and you know, you saw this and I think it's going to come out more at our Snow and Ice Symposium and just conversations that snow contractors have this summer on, like how many phone calls that they got, particularly from the middle of the US and south, from properties that said I need you to come out. And they're like you know what, I'll take your information for next year, but we're allocated.
Speaker 3:I mean I need to have people, equipment, supplies, materials that's what I mean by supplies. It's all things you use liquids. You have to have that ready and purchased well in advance and ready before you can just all of a sudden start servicing out of nowhere 20 new commercial properties. Right, what are the challenges are is I do think we're going to have to continue to look at the contracts that we have.
Speaker 3:How are these structured so that you're going to be successful as a business owner manager, whether you get 25 of your average or if you get 150 of your average, and ultimately, it's probably going to lead to something a little bit more in the in the seasonal contracts and then the ones you know, property owners managers that don't really like that, as is to have a balance. So have some that have that, some that really kind of want to have a per event, but have some kind of a. It needs to be some kind of like a deposit system or mechanism just to again to have a company be ready to perform snow and ice services. It's just there's cost to it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I've. I've certainly seen that. I've been. I think this is my 30th year in the snow industry, landscape industry. Boy, time flies, but I can. I feel like the industry has really moved rapidly, probably since 20, I'm going to say probably since 2015, 2017, on how the snow industry has evolved, even just from a level of professionalism To your point. Right, like anybody could get in a truck and have a snowblower and they could take their son, their nephew, their brother, whoever, and go plow a lot, right. But at the end of the day, is that mitigating risk for that client? Probably not. They're probably incurring more risk because who knows if this individual even has the right insurance and so forth and experience?
Speaker 2:and training right and operate in a safe manner.
Speaker 2:And I've seen I feel like I've seen a lot more of that and I think a lot of it has to do with folks like yourself and Syma and how it's elevated the industry to make awareness to the level of professionalism that's needed.
Speaker 2:So I really have seen that evolve. That was actually one of the questions I had for you was you know, how have you seen it evolve, whether technology or different things, and what advice might you give for some of the professionals just getting into it? I think I shared that I've seen a lot of these younger guys and gals getting into the industry and they're going right to silent and maybe because they had some coaching and mentoring and I love to hear those success stories Right, and how they. They want to be able to compete with the, with the bigger folks, but they want to provide the same service, maybe not necessarily be that large, whether it's dollars, volume or personnel, but they want to compete at a really high level. I guess, like I said, I asked what might you be able to share with some industry professionals or I should say kind of just getting into the industry and maybe what's evolved and how they can utilize some of those resources and tools?
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, there's a lot there, just to kind of go through some of those. But certainly I would say is I have read about or seen some instances where people think that this is an easy dollar to make, this is a quick buck, and don't think of it that way. Think of this as like, if you're going to do this, get into this for the long term. And I would also recommend that and you mentioned it is to start small but then think about ways that you can grow and that may initially be you're working as a subcontractor for a larger company. That's a way to kind of get in the door, particularly get some experience on some commercial accounts. That way you can understand what's the kind of equipment and even back-end technology that you're going to need to do that.
Speaker 3:You know Simon has a number of resources that we publish and content that has kind of what that takes. One of the things that the Simon Foundation came up with we did a workplace study and two-thirds of respondents subcontract work in some manner, whether it's 10% to 20% or some companies that do significant subcontract work. But two-thirds of respondents do it in some capacity and some of those relationships are more successful than others. But look at the ones that you feel like there's a mutual beneficiality to them and that you're both able to be profitable. That's what's going to sustain companies for the long term is how do you be profitable more than just in a one-year?
Speaker 3:Again, easy to go down into the south when they have this storm and try to make some money, but to do that in wherever your hometown is over time takes the contracts, the people, the equipment To make investment. One of the things I would say is, like you mentioned at the beginning, more of like some of the changes on, I would say that's really kind of technology tools. It's come so far on the tracking and putting a bid and a proposal. Even, yeah, you've been in this a long time. Think about when you first did estimating and proposals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, paper.
Speaker 3:Yeah, people can do it now. People can do it now with some of the drone base, whether it's Google Earth or the other. There's a number of different software platforms that you can measure a property and enter in some of your core business numbers which you probably can already have in a spreadsheet, and you can get a proposal out to a potential customer in an hour after them contacting you. That can be pretty accurate for them contacting you. That can be pretty accurate. And then even the things like on cameras on properties, that kind of again the verification that services were performed. I've seen that used in several examples again of like oh hey, you know the property manager, are you sure you were here? Well, here, take a look at this. I have a time.
Speaker 3:I don't have the time. But you know what, you know why? Because it was snowing an inch per hour. I got there at 6 am. It was clear. You're calling me at 9 am. Yeah, it snowed three more inches since then. I do have you on my cycle. I'm going to return back, but some of that stuff has really come a long way. And then the other part is, yeah, certainly encouraging more people to explore AI. Got encouraging more people to to explore ai. Got ai tools. Gonna make some of the things on like just anything writing letters, even marketing, marketing automation using ai now has come a long way where yeah, it's incredible, or you can just get out a lot more different channels and much more creatively in a matter of minutes.
Speaker 3:or you know hours and what used to take you like, oh I gotta, I gotta devote a significant amount of money and have either people, or maybe outsource people, work on the marketing function. You can do a lot more with some of the AI tools that are out there. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. And, to your point, it's leverage the technology right. Yeah, it's there. It's there for us to use. Is it perfect? No, but it's going to continue to get better. So I think about some of the key takeaways today and it's embrace the education, the professionalism I think. Work with your peers, work with other maybe potential competitors or partners, business partners that you could work with, and, to your point, like, maybe you work in with some other contractors and you become a sub and you really learn the right way to do it. So, and then getting involved with Syma, I think these are all great things for everyone. So thank you for your time today. Very, very cool, really great conversation. I appreciate and applaud your leadership, your team, all the devotion from the board of directors through the past years and their commitment and, yeah, it's just really helped elevate this industry. So something I'm proud to be a part of. So the Snow Symposium when is that this year? Could you give us a reminder on that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the middle of June. It's in Grand Rapids, michigan, which is a great snow area. They've had a lot of lake effect snow where they're at it's June 17th through the 20th. If you haven't been to Grand Rapids, it's a great city to be at and one of the things that you get with there.
Speaker 3:I just kind of build on your comments here, jay is kind of like there's one thing to have technology and some of these tools. You know what this is kind of really about. It's about a community. Technology is a software that's in a computer program Community. You're not going to get that until you meet people face to face and you interact with them and we'll we learn that, hey, you know what we're in a community together, there's going to be some great times. There's gonna be some some low times and the annual snow and ice symposium. I always kind of look at that as it's a. It's a annual celebration. It's a chance for us to get together, share the stories, learn from each other, say, hey, you know what, I'm gonna do this to get better next year because of that community that I'm involved in now and the people that I met, people like you and there's just so many others that we've known and met over the years that we're in this together as a community, and you can get a lot farther that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're not only in the snow business, and for me the landscape is snow, but at the end of the day we're in the people business and I think that makes a big difference. So absolutely. Well thanks again. I appreciate having you on and just really appreciate everything that.
Speaker 3:Simon is doing to elevate this industry. Thanks again, martin, really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've been talking to you.
Speaker 1:Jay, thanks for having me. You as well, thank you, take care. Thanks for tuning in. We hope you feel inspired and empowered. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. Join us next week for more insights and stories to help you bloom in your business journey.